Utopia Talk / Politics / israeli weapons are so precise

Sam Adams Member	Fri Nov 22 10:16:13 That watching neighborhood hezbollah residences get bombed is a safe thing to watch from just a couple hundred yards away: http://x.com/OALD24/status/1859928776416850414/video/1 Israel warns the neighborhoods first so the people can be safe. Genocide?
jergul large member	Fri Nov 22 10:27:05 US weapons. Fixed that for you.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Nov 22 12:34:29 True. Congrats on your first correct post this month jergul.
Seb Member	Fri Nov 22 14:33:09 Which only goes to show then that the mass destruction in Gaza was intentional.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Nov 22 14:56:34 Yes seb when savages like hamas are dug in under civilians, or at home with their families, it is still ok to target them. Given the widespread nature of hamas in gaza, many buildings had to be bombed. I personally would have just exterminated the entire strip, but israel is much nicer than I. Israel still behaved almost unfathomably generously, giving hamas time to move and hide, in order to reduce civilian casualties and appease losers and antisemites such as yourself. And even still they whupped your ass. That campaign against hezzbollah, with all the worlds antisemites lining up against them, was masterful. Perhaps not as impressive as patton lee and caesar, but one for the history books for sure.
jergul large member	Fri Nov 22 16:27:10 Sammy You do know there are Israeli nationalists, right? They even have their own term. Zionism. And then there are anti-zionists. People who dislike extremist nationalist policies. Sure, there are also anti-semites. You can recognize most of them by their torches and chants of "Jews will not replace us". A 7 front war is the opposite of genius, genius.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Nov 22 18:34:29 "can recognize most of them by their torches and chants of "Jews will not replace us". " Ya i saw one of those in north carolina 7 years ago and 46 of them in london in the last 7 months.
Sam Adams Member	Fri Nov 22 21:45:05 Lol israel just toasted the new leader of hezbollah. Is the 4th or the 5th in the last few months. Sadly he built his bunker under a large residential complex. But there is a good lesson here: dont hide behind your civilians. That shit might work on sissies like biden and the UK but not on post oct 7 israel. Your civilians will just die needless deaths. And 2... dont let terrorists hide under your shit. You'll just die. Oh and tell your friends to surrender seb. You arnt winning.
Seb Member	Sat Nov 23 07:45:43 Sam: Hamas did not have a bunker under every building, it's hilarious you believe such nonsense.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Nov 23 11:19:09 No, they were merely in many of those buildings. Lol dunce. This is a good lesson for you seb... you cant get away with what you could in 1940. Jews fight back now.
jergul large member	Sat Nov 23 14:05:43 They fought back. Problem was no one except the USSR was willing to give them weapons or sanctuary. Western resistance to aiding Jewish populations in distress was pretty close to complicity in the genocide. But that was a different kettle of fish. Israeli nationalism is the same poisoned beast as all extreme nationalist movements are. Conflating it with the fate of Europe's jewish population simply illustrates a lack of education. Hell, Zionism finished the cultural genocide of Yiddish that the Germans started (I have linked you up on the oppression of Yiddish culture and language within Israel before). That is how bad the team you are cheering for actually is sammy.
Seb Member	Sat Nov 23 15:26:10 Sam: They weren't. Most of them were destroyed after the area was cleared and under Israeli control.
Sam Adams Member	Sat Nov 23 19:13:22 Well then no palestinian civilians were in them and you cant complain
Seb Member	Mon Nov 25 08:18:00 Sam: Deliberately destroying civil infrastructure for collective punishment and to render the land uninhabitable in order to permanently displace the population is recognised means of conducting a genocide Sam. They've been caught on camera and by multiple credible witnesses using small drones to kill children. It's not "human shields" or "collateral damage", the intent is to ultimately displace the population. As the terrorist groups did in 47. Kill some people to scare off the rest, destroy their dwellings, claim their land, claim that the fact they fled for their lives shows they are traitors.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 25 08:22:46 Nabka never seems to go out of fashion.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Nov 25 11:12:09 "to render the land uninhabitable" It is also a recognized means of displacing a violent enemy for valid military reasons. Perhaps if hamas did not exist you would have a point.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Nov 25 11:13:58 "They've been caught on camera and by multiple credible witnesses using small drones to kill children." Lmfao. Seb just eats up obviously made up antisemitic propaganda.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 25 12:25:09 Ghetto liquidation is not a recognized means getting rid of undesirables sammy. Its like Zionists have studied wwii and taken notes on all the wrong lessons.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Nov 25 12:57:53 A buffer zone or dmz is certainly, 100%, a recognized legitimate tactic.
Seb Member	Mon Nov 25 13:09:49 It's not demilitarised zone, it's an ethnically cleansed zone, which they are intending to settle.
Seb Member	Mon Nov 25 13:10:29 It's specifically forbidden in treaties Israel has signed.
Seb Member	Mon Nov 25 13:11:16 Also, it cannot be for the purposes of displacing an enemy, as it was predominantly done after the enemy was removed.
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 25 13:56:53 Seb International humanitarian aid to Gaza over the years has included construction materials for buildings and infrastructure. Hamas took those materials and used them to build tunnels to attack Israel. Clearly, the Palestinians themselves don't really care about their own urban environment...so why should the Jews that they are trying to murder care?
Seb Member	Mon Nov 25 15:07:46 Rugian: Do you accept personal culpability for your countries institutional slavery?
Seb Member	Mon Nov 25 15:08:18 It's amazing how this individualism stuff is only for a certain skin colours.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Nov 25 15:32:02 "Also, it cannot be for the purposes of displacing an enemy, as it was predominantly done after the enemy was removed. " Lol seb the military genius wants the enemy to easily reoccupy land you just paid for. We got a real fucking alexander in our midst here. Lmao.
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 25 16:24:44 Seb Collective punishment of the Southern population for the CSA's rebellion was a prominent aspect of the Civil War. Scorched earth tactics (Sherman's March to the Sea, the Valley Campaigns) resulted in the wholesale destruction of farms, livestock, factories, and railroads, and asset seizures via foraging or legal procedures were a common element of life for Southerners. These activities were viewed with widespread revulsion by those who fell victim to them. But too bad, this is what war is. The destruction of your enemy will always include punitive measures against the population supporting them.
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 25 16:34:33 It's also worth noting how effective these tactics were. Lincoln loved having guys like Grant, Sherman, and Sheridan who had zero moral qualms about engaging in total war and were happy to send their soldiers to die so long as the enemy was also likely to suffer casualties. Did it make the war more brutal? Yeah. Did it help the North to win? Yes, and that's all that Lincoln cared about in the end.
Seb Member	Mon Nov 25 16:52:37 Sam: Ah, so you want to declare civilians enemy and justify killing them. All those guys that died in 9/11 - totally justified enemy combatants right? Rugian: I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about you specifically. Guilt by association on the basis of nationality, that's what you are arguing for. Why would it end with one generation?
Rugian Member	Mon Nov 25 16:58:00 Seb Guilt by nationality is like half of warfare. If I'm in Dresden in 1945, the British bombs being dropped on the city aren't going to give one shit about whether I'm pro- or anti-Nazi. I'm sorry that you apparently lost sight of what war is supposed to look like. Civilians suffer with the soldiers.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Nov 25 17:10:03 "Ah, so you want to declare civilians enemy and justify killing them." No moron. Hamas is the enemy, but they put their civilians in the way. Israel merely ignores your little tricks.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Nov 25 17:12:18 Seb comitted 47 genocides on germany by his logic.
Seb Member	Mon Nov 25 17:14:30 Rugian: The British Govt spent a long time thinking about the case for area bombing and how it was justified. The key point about that was in industrialised warfare with full mobilisation, Dresden was a valid target due to the high density of factory workers engaged in building munitions to attack the UK. Britain would not have bombed flat Dresden AFTER it had captured it and driven out the German forces in order to repopulate the Dresden with Brits. That, rather, is the whole NAZI MO for Eastern Europe.
Seb Member	Mon Nov 25 17:14:47 Or the soviets, indeed. Hence the cold war.
Seb Member	Mon Nov 25 17:17:40 Sam: You say that, but the entire point is there is overwhelming evidence that Israeli is destroying the infrastructure after it has secured the area from Hamas with the intent to ensure Palestinian civilians cannot return, and intends to settle the land with Israeli civilians instead. So no, you can't say "oh, no, it's just because Hamas is there". Most of the destruction has occurred after the IDF has declared areas clear. Once cleared, they have bulldozed pretty much every building, and blown up civil infrastructure including medical facilities, power generation and water treatment plants.
Seb Member	Mon Nov 25 17:19:34 The intent is ethnic cleansing and has nothing to do with Hamas and everything to do with the current Israeli governments belief that the land is given to them by god, and that Palestinians are not really human.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Nov 25 18:06:23 "with the intent to ensure Palestinian civilians cannot return" Hamas cannot return. Military necessity. Thats it.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 25 18:06:59 Ruggy Well, if you are going to cite the civil war... You know what the War in ukraine most of all ressembles? The US annectation of Texas.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 25 18:07:42 Military neccesity is an invalid argument.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Nov 25 18:13:35 This is especially funny coming from a UK citizen that tried to burn every german city to the ground and starved every german. Twice. What you viewed as military necessity just 2 generations ago is now totally wrong because jews are doing 1/100th of the same thing. You arent trying to be logical or use legal precedent or anything like that, you clearly just hate jews and want them to die. Which is even more ironic, since your hatred of jews caused you to force them out of europe, creating israel in the first place.
Sam Adams Member	Mon Nov 25 18:18:44 "Military neccesity is an invalid argument." Lol.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 25 18:21:47 Sammy Are you truly that stupid?
Sam Adams Member	Mon Nov 25 18:24:07 If norway had any power at all since 1100, you would have used military necessity 400 times since then, like everyone else.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 25 18:33:11 ... Draw the line between the dots. Either we have move beyond 1100, or we have not. If we have not, then all kind of arguments you people pedal is fully irrelevant.
jergul large member	Mon Nov 25 18:33:31 are fully*
jergul large member	Mon Nov 25 18:34:02 also, have moved*
Sam Adams Member	Mon Nov 25 19:25:46 The powerless period of norway extends vastly past the period of modern morality, which started in approximately 1775. Thus you cant really comment, can you?
jergul large member	Tue Nov 26 00:37:08 Huh, seems to me I have no problem commenting on a vast array of subjects including this one. Your logic does not hold.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Nov 26 01:25:52 Its not so much commenting as commenting well that i suggest you work on
Seb Member	Tue Nov 26 01:26:44 Sam: Ironically Hamas can return, they've popped up to attack IDF forces in the north. You see, they don't actually need to live there. They can carry supplies. We addressed the WW2 point above.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 26 01:27:44 The UK didn't try to burn every city to the ground, and the situation is more like the UK destroying German cities after we captured them.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 26 01:31:45 I like that Sam's definition of modern mortality is carefully constructed to include institutionalising race based slavery as part of modern mortality.
Seb Member	Tue Nov 26 01:34:43 A better point would be *after* WW2 specifically because of the way it was conducted on both sides - conduct which was controversial even during the war - and justified based on conditions that obviously do not apply in Gaza: namely the fact that the civilian population contributed hugely to industrial warfare. Not as Sam would now have you believe, that German armed forces were nearby in small numbers.
Sam Adams Member	Tue Nov 26 10:50:13 Please seb, german kids were not building tanks, yet you burned them to death anyway and think thats perfectly fine. That is actually perfectly fine but so is israels behavior in gaza. "Ironically Hamas can return, they've popped up to attack IDF forces in the north." So here you are, admitting this happens. Modifying the terrain to make this more difficult is clearly acceptable. gg
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