Utopia Talk / Movie Talk / (TV) The Orville

Cherub Cow Member	Sat Jan 12 21:15:01 This show clearly needs its own thread :D Season 2 started December 30th, and episode 3 aired January 10th. Hulu subscription carries it.. at the moment all the other sites (Amazon, iTunes, YouTube, Google...) make you pay per episode/season.
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Jan 12 21:15:08 S2E3: "Home" This really has become the new TNG or Voyager that Discovery couldn't be :D .. this episode was really good :) "Home" was an Alara episode, and in this case it meant that she had a chance to interact with her father again — i.e., a guest spot for Robert Picardo ("The Doctor"/EMH in Voyager, DS9, and TNG's "First Contact" movie). A treat to see him in this, even if his Voyager character got too crazed towards Voyager's end :p The obvious notable was that this episode also got a funny parallel with TNG's Tasha Yar exodus episode (TNG S1E23); in both TNG and Orville it was the security officer who leaves... Halston Sage (Alara) was having scheduling conflicts or something, but whereas Yar was killed in TNG, in Alara's case the door was left open for her return. Another separation between Alara and Yar — for me, at least — was that Yar was never really important or meaningful in TNG, whereas Alara was pretty central to Orville. When the TNG crew had to watch Yar's death hologram, I remember being like, "Why does she get so much screen time here? Was she ever really *on* this show?" Alara's character map had her on a trajectory for a meaningful relationship with Mercer, though really that seemed like a bad idea given the 20 year age difference between Sage and MacFarlane.. I was getting suspicious that it was a way for MacFarlane to get more on-screen kisses with celebrities out of his league ;D .. with even more suspicion, I'd guess that Sage quit to avoid those impending scenes ;p Anyways, surprisingly emotional ending. I think that shows that they've already built a good central cast :)
McKobb Member	Sat Jan 12 23:58:20 She got the boot! Too bad, she was kinda cute.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Jan 17 22:34:29 I googled Halston Sage to see who she was and there was a mid-2018 article saying she and Seth were dating (not sure if trouble has since occurred :p ) I missed episode 3 but checked out episode 4, seemed ok, need to see more to judge
McKobb Member	Fri Jan 18 00:21:08 Its freshness has rubbed off so it needs more engagement imo.
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Sat Jan 19 08:54:30 "Its freshness has rubbed off" yes
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Jan 19 21:36:39 "mid-2018 article saying she and Seth were dating" Oh.. hmm.. so either a break up or she's legit just trying to film some movies and will be back when she wants. Maybe season 3? ;p .. @S2E4: "Nothing Left on Earth Excepting Fishes" I thought this episode had plenty of engagement! :D ..knew something was up as soon as Lt. Tyler said that she liked "Taxi Driver", lol... Good episode themes.. wanting there to be cross-cultural connections that resolve differences and command not being about the textbook choices. And nice chemistry with Mercer and Tyler once Tyler was in the Krill suit. Michaela McManus (Tyler) had some good work showing her conflict through all the makeup and those contact lenses :D Seems like her character would have to be killed off for being a human sympathizer. That would be a good tragedy behind a Krill civil war, but 12-episode seasons and the instability of being a new show makes me wonder how far they'll get to take their stories. Hopefully the budget grows so MacFarlane will know that he can develop more species and conflicts.
Damian DB Moderator	Mon Jan 21 17:23:30 from what I read it was never confirmed they were dating. She is leaving the show because she has been getting movie roles she wants to take. They left it open for her to return, so can't have any real hard feelings, otherwise they would of killed her off.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Jan 24 23:46:14 S2E5 it's part comedy so makes it slightly harder to complain which is all i like to do :p ... but aside from them looking like humans, speaking english, having same architecture, door knobs, & candles, etc: - if they'd been following this for 3,000 years seems likely they'd not be having sex during the time period leading to the bad sign - why would they care if the aliens took away their bad apples (instead of creating hostility by imprisoning aliens of unknown power & attitude) - why is the camp so heavily secure when the residents feel they belong in the camps - the orville people murdered guards on the escape, so still let go because a star shows up? the last episode seemed better :p... (the only 2 i've seen)
McKobb Member	Fri Jan 25 03:25:09 I actually enjoyed this episode...but yeah, you kinda have to ignore a lot. Like how a civ technologically similar to ours could not easily know the star was a fake. Make Aliens Great Again!
McKobb Member	Fri Jan 25 03:37:19 What does all this mean evolutionarily? The more conservative cultures (low birth rates) will be swallowed by more fertile cultures, whom may or may not thank them for all the fish.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Jan 25 13:38:37 i realize there's budget constraints, but at least the candelabra should've been some unusual looking thing since it was interacted with :p
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Jan 25 21:22:47 Pretty good episode, but Jessica Szohr (Talla, the new security officer) doesn't seem like she can act too well. It was Szohr's first episode, so maybe she's just getting used to the direction, but hopefully she's not another J. Lee (Lt. Cmdr. LaMarr), since he was already pushed to the side when they saw how poorly he delivers lines. .. "i realize there's budget constraints, but at least the candelabra should've been some unusual looking thing since it was interacted with :p" Orville seems to be trying to keep some civilizations close to regular human civilization so that they can just show them as being weird in one particular respect.. kind of like "Sliders" visiting a same world that has just one twist. It works fine for me, at least :D .. "civ technologically similar to ours could not easily know the star was a fake." Yeah, the star-projection thing had questionable onscreen technology. Maybe the writers just figured that putting it close to the planet would make the star seem bigger, but it seems like the Orville should have placed that reflector much farther away from the planet, right? Placing it close to the planet would create some easy-to-spot parallax issues on the planet surface... and it's not like the Orville can't go really far away pretty quickly... hmm.. .. "if they'd been following this for 3,000 years seems likely they'd not be having sex during the time period leading to the bad sign" Humans on *our* planet haven't even been that great about setting birth dates in advance :D (still lots of variability in that 9-month expectancy window).. plus it looks like they have to take a little bit of a chance, because on Wheel of Fortune the big money is right next to the bankruptcy option; the sign for future leaders who get lots of resources occurs right after the disliked sign, so some parents probably try to take the chance.. probably a relatively small amount of parents so that Giliacs and the future leader sign stay pretty rare. .. "- why would they care if the aliens took away their bad apples (instead of creating hostility by imprisoning aliens of unknown power & attitude)" They sort of explained that the Regorians saw that the Orville crew clearly wasn't imprisoning their Giliac sign people (heresy!), so the Regorians took it upon themselves to do what they thought was the right thing. Seems like forcing the entire crew to leave would be best for all, but the "imprison all Giliacs!" imperative must be pretty strong .. "- why is the camp so heavily secure when the residents feel they belong in the camps - the orville people murdered guards on the escape, so still let go because a star shows up?" Yeah! That was weird. They talked up how no one ever tries to escape, but they have crazy-high security? Even if everyone believes that Giliacs have violent tendencies, if no one was ever actually attempting escape then it doesn't seem sensible to waste so many resources guarding them. And they definitely murdered a lot of guards... the sign-based culture was talked-up as strong enough that it would overrule everything (even that murder-spree), but wow, they killed a lot of guards :D
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Jan 27 18:04:18 yeah, putting the good sign right after was helpful in explaining but still its a 30-day window... if Jilliac* means life in prison, seems like they'd be really really careful :p but not sure they specified the % of pop affected, maybe it's <0.1% or something *i'm going w/ 'Jilliac' in case you are spreading jif propaganda by using a G for Jil :p
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Jan 29 12:57:55 lol. I’ve thought about switchinj all g’s and j’s in any post rejardless of context, but not this time! ;D I don’t think they said how few affected, yeah. They mentioned a few other, small camps, I think. They *would* need to step up the world-building with details like these now that Star Trek peeps have abandoned “Discovery” for Orville — I wonder if MacFarland knows that he’s basically filling Gene Roddenberry’s shoes :p
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Jan 31 23:09:34 S2E6 my random complaints... - i don't like Isaac's silver pants, it's got lights on the knees, being fabric is weird... give him stormtrooper-esque plastic arms/legs - he said Baltimore is in the 'northwest hemisphere' - there's no way a bowling alley holodeck program would have the door right at the start of a lane, not only would you stub your toe if you foul, but visually would just be bad for showing the ball rolling + pins - it reminded me of an old SNL Star Trek/Love Boat parody skit where Data was trying to understand the concept of love, and it was not a very funny skit... except for Data holding a human heart :p
McKobb Member	Fri Feb 01 03:01:58 Not the best episode
McKobb Member	Fri Feb 01 03:03:46 Having said that offering her his banana to eat was lol
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Feb 01 20:37:50 That was my favorite episode by far :D :D :D (Episodes with Barclay and/or Data were my favorite TNG/Voyager episodes, so I think that's probably a factor in my preference) Crying laughing for that last scene XD .. All sorts of funny stuff, too. The cake at (3?)am was fun; kind of a recall to when Isaac cut off Gordon's leg ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G39W5lFZDn0 ). And the scene where Isaac is on a couch in a t-shirt and underwear (lols...).. I had to pause for a minute :D .. the stuff about sub-routines was definitely from TNG and Voyager, but they've found fresh ways to apply it — fun writing :D ... The editing was great too.. moments like flipping between Dr. Finn saying how in love she was to Isaac saying he wants to break up. And the language stuff was fun, where they were basically translating Isaac's descriptions into more human terms :p Great combination of romance, comedy, and soul-seeking drama. You guise need to get on board and like this stuff moar ;D .. "there's no way a bowling alley holodeck program would have the door right at the start of a lane, not only would you stub your toe if you foul, but visually would just be bad for showing the ball rolling + pins" I thought the same thing, but it made for a more dramatic entrance, so I'll let them have it :p
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Feb 09 11:41:30 S2E7 another love boaty episode Bortus should not have had a beverage when he sat down to eat... give us some rationale for this thing! :p ...i did like the 'i miss you' text from bulbhead
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Feb 10 20:07:01 Hulu still hasn't put the episode up :/ ..usually it's up by Friday
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Feb 12 01:22:45 ..I was Googling to find out why Hulu still hadn't uploaded S2E7.. and Wiki says that it doesn't air until February 14th. How were you able to watch it early? :(
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Feb 12 01:38:59 apparently i didn't :p i guess i just assumed it was a new one upon checking, it was S2E1 that i watched sorry!
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Feb 14 22:25:25 S2E7... for real another love boaty episode not sure i can understand how a society would develop a strict prohibition of attraction to females if they didn't exist in the society whomever is placing these holodeck entrances should be fired! not only in the middle of the road... angled?! from the dialogue at the end, i shall assume this episode is an attack on our friendship w/ Saudi Arabia
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Feb 16 20:43:18 lulz... I thought a similar thing — for me Islam, though, not specifically Saudi Arabia ;D .. but now that you mention it, Khashoggi fits well.. hmm .. "whomever is placing these holodeck entrances should be fired! not only in the middle of the road... angled?!" lol. During that scene I was wondering if the program was designed to stop traffic if someone started approaching the door ;p ... But I'm more concerned with the locks! When Bortis had his porn addiction, Klyden just sort of walked in with no problem, and in this episode, again, Klyden was able to do the same. People need their weird, holodeck time to be behind *locked* doors :D .. "not sure i can understand how a society would develop a strict prohibition of attraction to females if they didn't exist in the society" True... They made it sound like something that existed before Moclans were part of the intergalactic community (all of that citing of tradition and survival), so it probably wasn't a development that followed encounters with other species... maybe it was a way to stop female-sympathizers? Like, if someone was born female, then not wanting them to be sex-changed would already be a cultural problem (like for Bortis resisting Topa's change), and then, by extension, being attracted to them would be even more taboo? So just a way to make sure that no one wanted female Moclan to survive? .. Kind of an average episode for me. This was Jessica Szohr's (Talla's) chance to get some acting time, but I don't think she sold the relationship very well. Even the tears didn't seem deeply felt so much as worn for the last scene.. Most of the tragedy hinged on her emotive abilities, but she just wasn't there. Seems like she can improve, at least, but a 12-episode season might not give her enough time :/ Must be about time for a Gordon episode, right? :D
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Feb 16 21:42:09 I haven't seen many episodes... I didn't know females existed... but I've looked at a wiki and get the idea sorta :p
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Feb 21 22:32:10 S2E8 -= SPOILER TALK =- a damn fine episode... but i expect i'll have much complaining next week
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Fri Feb 22 10:24:48 individuality
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Feb 22 20:14:41 ! D: ! ..definitely a cool episode. A little bit of Skynet history and "Oblivion" (2013) futures.. can really see the Star Trek writers doing their thing. Can't wait for the next episode :D One complaint, though! How does a little boy override a starship's security to simply exit the ship? :| ... that's kind of a big deal :p
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Feb 22 21:30:17 Isaac had been reminding me of the HK-47 assassin droid from Star Wars:KOTOR... and I had been thinking it would be funny if he killed someone every episode in a misunderstanding :p. I didn't expect him to actually be evil though. Was the leg chopping in an episode? I'll have to see that one if so. If next week, the boys turn Isaac back to the light-side with emotion (that he doesn't have) and he resolves the situation with some disabling-the-hive-mind solution (as would be the standard expected resolution) I'll be disappointed all humans being destroyed seems like what should realistically happen... but I can see how the writers may not go with that
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Feb 22 21:38:03 the kid did punch a code in to the door so maybe he stole that as kids are terrible
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Feb 22 22:47:01 also add Babylon 5 Vorlons to the influences... they were super advanced and didn't allow anyone to their homeworld and had a single ambassador on the station and that's all the info I'm revealing... (another of my signature triple posts)
McKobb Member	Sat Feb 23 04:40:11 Pfft...send Ender in!
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Mar 01 00:02:12 S2E9 -= SPOILER TALK =- another good episode, colorful space battles always a winner minor complaints: pain simulators seems a weird choice to control robots... the escape didn't yield any punishment like the other actions... sending warning to Earth seems like it should've been an important goal of the shuttle (unless not capable)... it needed more communications going on during battle, preferably with Admiral Ackbar swirling around in a chair
swordtail Anarchist Prime	Fri Mar 01 10:24:22 " preferably with Admiral Ackbar swirling around in a chair " considering all the star wars sounding music they use
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Mar 01 11:18:08 B5 had colorful space battles so reminded me most of those whereas Battlestar Galactica the opposite, very grey/desaturated color... a gritty miserable existence every episode :p... (but still good!)
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Mar 01 21:05:13 Very cool episode! It may just be because I'm into the show, but I think they did a good job showing what a big deal it is when a Union ship gets destroyed so that it's not just a ship destroyed but 100s of people dying. That made the ending fight emotional and critical. Interesting what a difference that is compared to the similarly-crowded (visually) Star Wars 1-3 space battles — in Orville the battle was crowded but actually had substance. Nice development from Isaac slowly realizing that he no longer agreed with Prime to Isaac finally being forced to make a choice alone and as an individual (hence the episode name, surely). Isaac staring out the window at the end was also nice.. that feeling of being so completely alone for the moment (the Union fleet probably hating all Kaylon after those big ship losses, the crew probably hating him for the betrayal, and of course the Kaylon disowning him). I'm guessing he won't be allowed back on the bridge immediately, but I wonder if they'll use up a lot of time showing him isolated or basically only friends with the doctor and her family. .. "pain simulators seems a weird choice to control robots..." Yeah, and they didn't even go into it much in the episode. Maybe it was just as a programmed basis for Kaylons being able to feel emotion in an indirect way. .. "the escape didn't yield any punishment like the other actions..." They didn't really seem to care, yeah. Outside of the show it was probably just a run-time issue, but inside the show I could only figure that it was because the Kaylon were at that point too close to Earth to care about punishment anymore ;D
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Mar 01 21:10:27 [Me]: "Maybe it was just as a programmed basis for Kaylons being able to feel emotion in an indirect way." That is.. a basis for the *writers* to portray Kaylon emotions. Inside the show it does make some sense as a way to program fear responses for subservience. The alternative would be to monitor self-awareness Blade Runner / Turing Test style, which might put caps on the development or utility of AI.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Mar 01 23:46:01 I didn't get much sense of loss, that's one reason I thought they needed more Ackbars swirling around shouting orders & more interior scene chaos (but I haven't seen season 1 or start of 2 so that might help get a better sense of the fleet) technically Isaac surprise-killed everyone so not sure his peeps would know he betrayed them but seems they're going under that assumption with the writing
McKobb Member	Sat Mar 02 09:31:20 I find it interesting that within two episodes they stripped Isaac of his Data like uniqueness and subsequently replaced it, may Avis guide him!
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Mar 02 12:54:56 he never clearly crossed the line into displaying non-existent emotion so i'm not yelling at writers on twitter yet possibility: perhaps he sensed the boy had successfully gotten the warning out to Earth and figured their not well-planned invasion would fail so he staged his betrayal to remain a spy... could happen
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Mar 08 19:59:13 @S2E10: "Blood of Patriots" Isaac was put back on the bridge! Kind of surprising that they trust him that much ;) .. I don't think it was an act since he had all those private conversations with Prime, but it seems like the crew would want more time apart... then again, in the show this was 30 days after the battle, so maybe it was a transition. Hopefully they'll give more backstory there before the season ends. Isaac aside, it was a pretty good episode. Mostly just Malloy character-building and a driving home of the unification process. Blerg.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Mar 08 21:55:05 if i was Krill i'd be suspicious that the killer had really died & not just a cover-up
Cherub Cow Member	Mon Mar 11 15:44:04 They must have glossed over the forensic capabilities of this future ;)
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Mar 15 17:45:21 No Orville until next week :'(
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Mar 22 11:34:36 -- S2E11 -- ...made me want to try a cigarette
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Mar 22 20:03:44 lol XD ... [Klyden]: "Wonderful... I feel as if I have been standing my entire life, and I just sat down. The tingles! Do you feel them?" [Bortus]: "I do." [Klyden]: "We must have more!" [Bortus to replicator]: "Five *hundred* cigarettes." One of the funnier episodes for sure :D Also very romantic/tragic ♥:') ... Scott Grimes ("Malloy") showed some good developments there; having a crush, falling in love, feeling dejected, being selfish, coming to terms, saying goodbye :) .. really a lot there in that compressed story. And when Malloy mentioned that his dad's name was Greg, I wondered if they'd find out that Laura was an ancestor of his, but luckily they didn't go there :D Fun costumes during their game night too, or mostly just Jessica Szohr ("Talla") who had a kind of rockabilly hipster thing going. The show wardrobe could have had a little more fun with the others, I think ;p And super cool to see Tim Russ in a guest spot!! (He played Tuvok on Star Trek Voyager.) Have to wonder how many cameos the actual Star Trek show has gotten (those losers) :p
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Mar 24 12:22:42 i don't see how anyone can not enjoy Pictionary i figured Talla's outfit was to hide her alien features, as w/ Spock in Star Trek IV... or any of the other times that happened in Star Trek :p
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Mar 29 18:21:40 That makes some sense considering that their holodeck doesn't seem to automatically correct for their uniforms and appearance (like how Laura commented on Malloy's uniform and he had to explain it away). It was also a good excuse to get rid of Talla's not-cool side ponytail :p .. "i don't see how anyone can not enjoy Pictionary" Yeah :D .. and you'd think that at least *one* person there would be cool with someone dating a simulation and would enjoy that party. Super judgy group ;D .. The next episode won't be released until April 11th, but on the plus side there will be 14 episodes in this season instead of 12.
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Apr 12 19:48:10 @S2E12: "Sanctuary" Whaaaaaaaat? :D :D :D — Guest spot by Marina Sirtis!! :D If she's the new teacher, then this could be recurring @13minutes.. hopefully it doesn't turn out that the two Moclans were playing on Bortus' sympathies to get him not to notice that the child was a bomb or something like that ;D ... seems very good-natured at the moment :p @16minutes.. See, Bortus! Gotta verify this stuff before you trust peeps! ;p @25minutes.. F. Murray Abraham (from "Amadeus" and "Homeland") guest spot too! And I recognize Tony Todd's voice as the Moclan delegate! :D (He played "Candyman" and was Death in "Final Destination".) Lots of cast treats. And it was directed by Jonathan Frakes (Riker from TNG)!! :D So fucking cool. lol@"9 to 5" playing during fight. I hope it's been long enough since "Deadpool 2" that this is an okay borrow ;D Good episode! :D Awesome show :D
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 13 00:22:30 so will Bortus dump Mike Pence? seems a troubled relationship ...also they never checked that baby... still could've been a kidnapping :p
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Apr 13 19:12:04 lulz, that would be a great outcome :D And yeah.. Bortus and Klyden have a lot of differences over tradition. I'd only think that maybe they won't break up because Bortus has already committed to the relationship after Klyden tried to kill him to end it.. that leaves room for Klyden to eventually lose his prejudices.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Thu Apr 25 22:37:43 - 2 episodes passed - last week's 'two Rikers' episode not that memorable to me but set up this week's, which was a Star Wars-y, Star Trek-y, Firefly-y, Battlestar Galactica-y, Back to the Future 2-y one that was pretty good they kinda messed up the ending though... just memory wiping Kelly properly seems like it would've made a ton more sense... than now being able to send back the doctor w/ gear into someone else's apartment who then vaporizes for some reason
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Apr 26 01:16:17 oops, it occurred to me why that simpler solution wouldn't work so simply... as now erasing 7 years rather than a short time :p still, what they did seemed awkward
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Apr 26 01:29:17 ok, that's wrong too... it wouldn't be erasing 7 years as there's no one out of place to send back... i need to put more thought or less thought into this :p still, what they did seemed awkward
Cherub Cow Member	Fri Apr 26 04:24:18 @S2E13: "Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow" ..they shortened the intro theme for this episode. They must not have wanted to edit out any scenes :p lol@video game scene :D lol@"The restroom?? It is THAT WAY!" Sad ending :( ... guess she figured that if she couldn't have love, she could at least plan ahead for a command. When she jumped to the conclusion that the memory wipe must have worked, I thought maybe she would die in the process or something, but this ending made more sense ;p .. Yeah, for sure a Riker doppelgänger episode, but after the setup they went in a different direction. .. S2E14: "The Road Not Taken" lol@"Yes, I want half!" Outfits and chase scene definitely very Star Wars-y, yeah.. ..not sure why the entire crew was on the Orville-bound shuttle. Things worked out, but it seems like they should have at least left the kids behind while they fixed the Orville for flight :p ..Seth MacFarlane opens his mouth way too early in his on-screen kisses, lulz... I think that the episode theme is that you should go on a date with Seth MacFarlane if he asks ;) .. "just memory wiping Kelly properly seems like it would've made a ton more sense..." Not sure if they explained it in the episode, but if they had properly memory-wiped the future Kelly and sent *her* back, then it would have been a 7-years-older Kelly, which could have caused problems in the past. Sending the doctor back means it's the past Kelly still in tact, and the doctor disappears once the timeline is corrected. I was kind of hoping that they'd do the "all timelines at once" version of time histories, but it looks like they prefer the "one timeline" version. If it "was all at once", then sending young Kelly back wouldn't affect regular Orville's timeline, it would just be another chance for Kelly in another universe... Pretty funny episodes, but not the strongest episodes of the season :/ .. they didn't *have* to be for the finale, but no more Orville episodes until next season :'( :'(
tumbleweed the wanderer	Fri Apr 26 15:23:07 they noted the wipe could cause brain damage, so they could start next season w/ the future that would exist w/ a brain-damaged Kelly ...probably won't happen :p
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Apr 27 00:06:15 Maybe they’ll find out that flashing lights make her drool ;)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 27 01:27:49 wouldn't the restored timeline just summon twice-wiped Kelly to the future and repeat again? seems to me to break the cycle she -must- get brain damage... she gets +2 wipes each loop... no matter how safe the procedure, it seems eventually repeated exposures approaching infinity would cause sufficient damage to spawn a 3rd timeline the disappearing doc should've tattooed onto young Kelly that she had whatever abnormality they said made the wipe fail... or something ... I
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sat Apr 27 11:13:33 ...updating her medical record probably would be better than a tattoo :p
Cherub Cow Member	Sat Apr 27 17:33:02 "repeated exposures approaching infinity" I think that would be prevented because future Kelly would always recall (and thus bring forth) her original, pre-memory wipe Kelly so it would always be a "fresh" Kelly being memory-wiped. I.e.: (1) she recalls the version of herself that wakes up following the first date, (2) That recalled self gets the two memory wipes (one successful, one not) and returns to a time point just after the original has left, (3) 7 years later, that recalled self recalls the original Kelly (pre-memory wipe), (4) Return to step (1), So it would only ever be two memory wipes of an "original", not accumulating memory wipes of a memory-wiped person. I think it only fails if the memory wipe fails (as they showed) or if the time between the original leaving and the corrected Kelly arriving ends up being too significant. For significance, it might have been a problem that uninterrupted timeline Kelly probably didn't drop that coffee cup before taking the call with Ed, whereas successfully memory-wiped Kelly apparently wakes up in bed, takes the call, and finds a broken coffee cup on her floor. She still remembers having the coffee, but she wouldn't remember dropping it and getting back in bed. But, if this time loop is fixed and won't be an issue later, then it must be that she just figured that dropping the coffee and getting back in bed was just some weird morning behavior that could be explained away and forgotten; finding some strange inconsistency like that probably wouldn't register on long-term consciousness.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 28 01:31:16 i think it would be post-memory wipes Kelly summoned to the future as the original Kelly was awake & having coffee & presumably pondering the date w/ Seth so... you'd need an awake Kelly pondering the date (or whatever the rationale was) :p a sleeping Kelly is no good & that's the only way to get a pre-wipe Kelly (i mean technically it was the future kelly thinking of the morning after the date or whatever, but she wouldn't be thinking of herself sleeping imo) in any case, a single timeline universe doesn't work well :p
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Apr 28 06:05:08 “so... you'd need an awake Kelly pondering the date (or whatever the rationale was)” Yeah, that fits. The original Kelly was awake and making coffee, whereas the memory-wiped Kelly was returned in an asleep state. So in the future, 7-years-older Kelly would only be able to recall awake (original) Kelly, not asleep Kelly.
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 28 11:03:03 but repaired future Kelly would now be recalling wiped Kelly after wiped Kelly wakes & has new coffee etc, there would be no original Kelly this isn't all that important though if you want to agree to disagree :p
Cherub Cow Member	Sun Apr 28 19:42:03 "but repaired future Kelly would now be recalling wiped Kelly after wiped Kelly wakes & has new coffee etc, there would be no original Kelly" Oh no, that's the thing: the original Kelly was the only Kelly who had coffee (she takes a sip, thinks for a second, and is transported to the future). The returned Kellys are awoken by Ed's call while laying on the bed with the coffee cup already broken on the floor. And future Kelly only recalls the Kelly who was drinking coffee that morning (the original Kelly), not the Kelly who was asleep with a broken cup on the floor (the memory-wiped Kelly).
tumbleweed the wanderer	Sun Apr 28 21:24:22 but the wiped Kelly now has to live the original 7 years again and it's a wiped Kelly summoning her wiped younger self as there no longer ever was an original Kelly having coffee
Cherub Cow Member	Tue Apr 30 13:29:21 Arg, no! :D The original Kelly is the start point of the timeline, kept in tact by her being a memory from before any memory-wiping took place. She is significant because she sips the coffee and thinks about how she wants a second date. It is that thought that future Kelly remembers, and her memory is what causes the time jump. The wiped (younger) Kelly goes back, but she arrives *after* the coffee moment occurred; she is never the memory that is recalled because she does not have that coffee moment — but she already had that moment herself before any memory wipes or time travel. After she waits 7 years, she too would remember that coffee moment. They’re all pulling from a memory, and that memory doesn’t change — all of them had it, and it was from a moment before any time travel and any memory wipes. It’s no different from a childhood memory; it’s outside the time loop, unaffected. Memory-wiped Kellys would have to be sent back *before* the coffee moment for it to be a problem, but that would mean multiple Kellys in the past, which could mean no coffee for anyone ;)
tumbleweed the wanderer	Tue Apr 30 22:10:47 all right, i rewatched some of it & i'll accept your testimony ...but perhaps having to clean up coffee has altered something... >.>
Cherub Cow Member	Thu May 02 00:43:01 That’s what I’m wondering.. like, they may have had her drop the coffee only because it’s dramatic, but it could be really confusing to see a broken cup of coffee on the floor and remember taking a sip but not remember having dropped it three minutes early ;p
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